Watercooling, different coolants

Watercooling, different coolants

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  • Tony Reply

    Well, here’s the “I have done it, you are wrong” comment.

    Over 6 years and 5 lasers (3 x k40’s) I’ve only ever used tap water. I toss a cup of bleach in there to stop algae and then forget about it.

    My brother who lives in a colder area adds anti-freeze, I don’t need that.

    The oldest functioning tube (not killed by me being dumb) I have in a K40 is 3 years old, it works fine (down on power but that’s expected considering its age). Water flow rate hasn’t slowed.

    Now I wouldn’t advise using hard well water, but if your local city water is low mineral, then use it.

    When first started I read all the scare stories, including the bollocks “it’ll corrode your mirrors!” one. As usual no-one can produce a tube that’s been ruined by running plain tap water through it. By the time any minerals have built up to cause a problem the tube will have died of old age.

    If distilled water is cheap where you are then use it, note that it can rust metals more than plain water will (fittings and the stainless steel tank in your chiller). De-ioned water can be more damaging to metals.

    My main problem was the plastic tubing going brittle. Get black stuff, UV doesn’t attack it.

    2017-11-04 at 03:25
    • HP Persson Reply

      Thanks for sharing! I use tap water too now and then, but i keep from suggesting it as water is very different even down the road. And we have seen very high conductive water acting on the power output aswell as the regeneration process. In my summer home i can use the tap water directly from the spring, but in the city it´s so bad the PSU starts to coil whine 🙂

      2017-11-04 at 03:31
  • Paul Reply

    Why do you say “keep the return hose below water surface”? I like to hear the water trickling and so don’t do this at the moment.

    Thanks for the website and all the useful info.

    2017-11-22 at 18:05
    • HP Persson Reply

      The trickling water creates air bubbles in the tank, get a visual indicator or a flow sensor that breaks the connection for the machine to use the laser if the flow stops 🙂

      2017-11-22 at 18:07
  • Alf Reply

    Hi again,

    Why not use Destilled water and some antifreeze over tap water? Seems like better combo over tap water even if it costs some fe NOK.

    2018-03-25 at 13:23
    • HP Persson Reply

      There is so many different antifreeze brand and blends out there, and many of them contain additives that will create problem in the laser tube. Either by making the water too conductive so the water is field charged (output power and gas regeneration process lowered), and some will act on the hoses, so it´s easier to just stay away from them. If you find one with low conductivity and not eroding the hoses, you can use it 🙂

      2018-03-25 at 13:29
  • Jeff Reply

    I have built several custom PC rigs and I am researching cooling for a K40 I plan to buy. I have seen very little info on using mineral oil (zero conductivity) and heat sinks/fans for tube cooling. If you could provide any information on why not to use mineral oil that would be great. I know it is a bit more expensive than water but as far as use of length it can not be beat. I am not very familiar with laser properties and how it would react to mineral oil. Thanks!

    2018-06-03 at 22:25
    • HP Persson Reply

      Mineral oil are denser and will cause problems inside the laser tube. The flow needed for it to work properly will endanger the glass tube due to the force applied. I have tested regular mineral oil without problems, but the gain is very slim. And cooling the oil through a heat exchanger or radiator will not work for most users, as the cooling will be limited to ambient temp, and that is often too high for the health of the laser tube. A laser tube wants 15-18c temperatures. Maybe if there is a oil with lower viscosity it can work, but with that there is probably a loss on the thermal pickup/exchange instead.

      2018-06-03 at 22:31
  • Roland Reply

    Hi. Very interesting topic. Looking around how to cool my K40 laser and what to use. What is your opinion about EC6 non-conductive coolant? The supplier claims that their product has Electrical Conductivity <2µS/cm at 24C. It's not cheap, but if it is suitable, maybe it is good investment? They claim it should last for 2 years.
    There are specs from them:

    Details:

    • Pre-mixed with No Need for Additional Additives – Ships ready for use
    • Corrosion protection for Copper, Brass, Steel, Nickel and Aluminium Proven to ASTM D3306 and BS6580 standards
    • Prevents build up of Algae & growth within in your liquid cooled system
    • Electrical Conductivity <2µS/cm at 24C * (most competitors struggle to reach <10µS/cm)
    • Non-Toxic and RoHS Compliant
    • Freezing Point – 6C
    • 85% Bio-degradable Within 30 Days
    • Available in a None coloured option or an expanding range of *non toxic UV colours
    • Shelf Stable UV Reactive Dyes of up to 2 years
    • EC6 is a true Eco Friendly Product

    TIA
    Roland

    2018-07-12 at 16:53
    • HP Persson Reply

      That one looks like a perfect coolant, if you have a closed system where air from the room cannot contaminate the coolant. The actual problem with distilled is not the water, it´s the shit falling down into the coolant.
      Similar coolant to the one you list above is the kind made for welders, they have similar standards.

      2018-07-13 at 23:19
      • Phil Reply

        Hi.
        Do you think that EC6 non-conductive coolant would be ok to use with R/O Water or would i be better using distilled {all my R/O is free/also it will be running thru http://www.hailea.com/e-hailea/product1/hc-100a.htm.
        Cheers Phil

        2018-07-24 at 14:53
        • HP Persson Reply

          RO is worse, it has a tendency to “re-ionize” from the air and go back to “normal” water quicker than distilled will. It may also rob any metal from the ions in the loop corroding them. How much and how quick depends on a lot of features, but i would go with distilled instead.

          2018-07-27 at 00:00
          • Nils

            The RO “re-ionizing” quicker than distilled water is a myth. The water does not care what process was used to remove the ions in the first place.

            RO water with <10µS/cm versus distilled with <10µS/cm is basically the same. RO is just cheaper.

            Source: MSc in Chemical Engineering

            2019-05-18 at 15:54
          • HP Persson

            Thank you for the info, we contacted a professor at the university who have helped us writing a new post about this matter and fixing some other details. Greatly appreciated comment!

            2019-06-28 at 22:01
  • glenn Reply

    what surfactants and biocides
    any suggestions? where to buy? ratios needed?

    2018-07-12 at 18:55
    • HP Persson Reply

      Surfactant can be a few drops of dish soap until the surface tension is gone, or stuff made for PC water cooling is another option. For biocide a tbl spoon of bleach can be used in 10L of distilled water, not in metal loops though as its corrosive.

      2018-07-13 at 23:20
      • Jonathan Reply

        Hi there I’m thinking of using EC6 coolant in distilled water for my machine… How much would you recommend I put into say 10L of water???? Great blog by the way…

        2019-01-10 at 18:20
        • HP Persson Reply

          One 1L bottle would give you pretty basic protection, for best use 100% should be EC6 as its a premix, not a concentrate. But i have used PC cooling before with good results. Also make sure to keep the tank out of sun light, and as air tight you possible can.

          2019-01-10 at 22:03
  • Fred Heim Reply

    Thoughts on this coolant: Antifrogen Sol Ht
    Propylene glycol base super low corrosion on most metals. I picked up some for a solar heat application.

    2018-08-12 at 21:06
    • HP Persson Reply

      Looks like really low conductivity and good density for our lasers, try it.

      2018-08-15 at 13:51
  • cpunltd Reply

    Considering use of EC6 Mentioned before. Would it be best to use by itself or to add something to it? Also, what amount makes the most sense? I’m considering creating a loop with a radiator somewhere in the mix that would hold about a gallon of liquid overall. Is this too much or too little? Currently sing stock setup with a gallon of distilled water and the provided pump, but my readout tends to hover between 30C and 35C (room temp shows as ~22C before I even start the machine up.

    2018-08-15 at 10:30
    • HP Persson Reply

      25% distilled to that wont hurt if you want to save some dollars, but you can go 100% EC6 too.

      2018-08-15 at 13:53
  • RK Reply

    Hi i have a 60w laser tube, as a cooling system i have two radiators with fans and a water pump, the temperature of the water gets to high like 30 C°, because it’s a hot enviroment , what kind of coolant do you recomend, it’s possible to use any car coolant
    thanks

    2018-08-30 at 23:41
    • HP Persson Reply

      The radiators can´t cool down the water any more than ambient temperature. So if you have 30c in the room the rads will never cool below that. You need active cooling, either a CW5200 or dump some jugs of ice in the water tank to keep it low. Keep away from car coolant.

      2018-08-31 at 00:13
  • RK Reply

    hi
    can i use any car coolant for my cooling system
    thanks

    2018-08-31 at 00:12
    • HP Persson Reply

      No, most of them are conductive and will field charge the water from the tube, causing both less power output aswell as lowered gas regeneration affecting life length of the tube.

      2018-08-31 at 00:22
  • Jenny Searcy Reply

    I’m new to k40, arrives in 1 week. Re the coolant water, I see the best (all green +) is Distilled + biocide, + surfactant. What is a good biocide to use (? Vinegar) and how much? And surfactant, how much, a few drops, more?

    2018-10-03 at 17:25
    • HP Persson Reply

      Bleach is a good biocide, 15ml per 10L of water is a good start. A few drops of dish soap works as surfactant, add a few drops and run the pump 15min, and look inside the tank, when the water stops curling up on the wall the tension is gone. Add 4-5 more if needed.

      2018-10-03 at 18:50
      • Isy Reply

        any things to avoid or to look for in dish soap? or does it really not matter?

        2019-01-05 at 08:27
        • HP Persson Reply

          When i used it, i bought eco-friendly stuff, with less perfumes and oils. Probably doesn´t matter much 🙂

          2019-01-06 at 15:40
  • Marco Reply

    Hi, what do you think about this kind of solution?

    http://diylaser.blogspot.com/2012/04/my-diy-co2-laser-tube-cooler.html

    Seem very elegant and space saving.. but is enough for dissipate the heat produced by k40?

    Thank you for your awesome work!

    2018-11-01 at 07:54
    • HP Persson Reply

      It works partially, a radiator can only pull down the temperature to ambient temps. But a small one like that will have trouble disappating the heat quickly enough. If you have a bigger one you might get water temp close to your room temp. Or if you put it outside the window in the winter you get free cooling.

      2018-11-01 at 12:08
  • Marco Reply

    I forgot another question 😛 for a “classic” system with a bucket, what is the minimum water quantity ? I’m running out of space… so I need to find the smallest solution.. as example 10 liters of water in a bucket sized for 15 liters is enough for running the laser for 1 hour of (more or less) continuous work?

    2018-11-01 at 08:04
    • HP Persson Reply

      Depends on your room temp and how much power you use. You can go with 10L and a couple of ice jugs in that to keep it cold for longer time.

      2018-11-01 at 12:08
  • Talon Reply

    Hello,

    I recently found your site, great info !! I built myself a cooling box out of some peltiers I had. Think of like a mini freezer / powered ice chest you take in the car.

    The problem Im having is that if Im not doing alot of cutting i.e the tube isnt getting hot then the water and biocide in my cooling loop starts to get icy. Im terrified that will ice up to the point that flow would stop.

    Do you know of an antifreeze that meets all your other suggestions?

    thanks

    2019-03-29 at 21:52
    • HP Persson Reply

      Check ebay, amazon or aliexpress for a W1209, its a relay with temp-sensor. So you can set a min-temp when it turns off the peltiers. I have the same thing on my peltiers, it turns off at 15c, above that its on.

      2019-03-29 at 21:55
    • Talon Reply

      Wow, COMPLETELY missed the RV antifreeze in the list. that solves my question lol Disregard

      2019-03-29 at 21:55

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